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only1biggs
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PostSubject: Worth a look   Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:44 pm

Due to my utter disdain of Mass Effect 3, I began a search for analysis videos a while back, of people who felt the same way, but didn't just "rage" over what they disliked. Rather, they looked at the plot and narrative of the games and intelligently made arguments as to why these things did not make sense.

Go check this guys playlists out, and if possible, watch them in order. Starting with "Mass Effect Plot Analysis", then "Mass Effect 2 Plot Analysis" into "Mass Effect 3: Bookends of Destruction". This way you have context.

After, take a look at the other playlists related to Mass Effect, to really understand the debacle of the whole situation.

Just note that you have to take some of the issues he raises as a bit "nit picky", but in the end they are valid once you get to grips with them (In most cases). I myself have raised some inconsistencies concerning his arguments, but I still respect the time and effort put into dissecting the story in a constructive manner. Here's the link -

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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:55 am

Great find!

I will start watching these over the next few days.

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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:41 am

theeav3ng3r wrote:
Great find!

I will start watching these over the next few days.

please do and stick with it. there are a couple of times you will want to punch the guy, but he looks at and examines story and narrative etc... mass effect 2 and 3 failed in this respect, which is where i think they went wrong and lost peoples' love for this franchise...
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:10 pm

only1biggs wrote:
please do and stick with it. there are a couple of times you will want to punch the guy, but he looks at and examines story and narrative etc... mass effect 2 and 3 failed in this respect, which is where i think they went wrong and lost peoples' love for this franchise...
I am about half way through the analysis of Mass Effect 1, and already he has brought up some good points and aspects of the storyline which I had not noticed or would never of thought of.

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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:30 pm

Sleelan wrote:
ME series is space opera, not space combat simulator. It isn't Arma in space, and it never pretended to be. As long as it sticks to own plot and lore and parts of it don't exclude each other (sup ME3), I couldn't care less about some anomalies. Hell, sound in space. Star Wars has it too. How many people do care?

Edit, although ME3 part seems interesting. I'll try that.

i agree with your "sound in space" comment, but the point of these videos are to enlighten people on STORY and NARRATIVE. suspension of disbelief is never in question when it comes to Mass Effect.

But story, narrative and plot still have to make sense. for example, if watching a movie, the protagonist meets someone, that someone must pertain to part of the story (background of protagonist, etc). it can't just be a random character, otherwise we'd be watching "family guy", and mass effect isn't a comedy (but it does contain comedic lines in parts).

if video games are to be taken seriously as a medium, then they must be held accountable for story and to the same standard of movies and literature.
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:08 pm

Yeah, I was wrong. The first 5 minutes indicated "omg, this does not work with laws of physics", then it went on about the story proper. It is, I admit, a good point and nicely presented.
That's why I deleted the comment.

More edit:
Yet still I enjoyed ME2. Not for plot, but for action, mechanics (take away inventory and leveling) and pace. In fact, the less I remember of the plot, tho more I like it.
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:18 pm

Sleelan wrote:
Yeah, I was wrong. The first 5 minutes indicated "omg, this does not work with laws of physics", then it went on about the story proper. It is, I admit, a good point and nicely presented.
That's why I deleted the comment.

More edit:
Yet still I enjoyed ME2. Not for plot, but for action, mechanics (take away inventory and leveling) and pace. In fact, the less I remember of the plot, tho more I like it.

i really enjoyed mass effect 2. i would purposely complete ALL missions/side quests etc, just as i did with ME1.
ME3? no. all the sidequests are completely pointless. infact, now that they changed the "effective military strength" required for the best ending to around 3000 in stead of 5000, the side missions are now COMPLETELY redundant.

as much as i enjoyed playing me2, there was no point to it in terms of the story...

keep watching the vids! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:57 pm

Yep, they pretty well match with my opinion.
"-Sheppard, you must collect the squad of mercs and soldiers an whatnot!
-But aren't we fighting some unknown base/homeworld of aliens that we have no intel on, and may have entire fleet?
-DO WHAT I SAY.
-K, I have no other dialogue option.
*30 hours later*
-Oh look Sheppard, so it happens that completely pointless and unreasonable efforts of yours are just what you need. What a shock."

Case for both ME2, and ME3. Collecting sword fleet to assault Earth. For no reason. And so it happens that crucible ends there. Astonishing coincidence.

Also, I still OCD'd ME3 and got all sidequests possible, that is the ones that I could do without diary. >6k EWS. And then the ending.

Edit: The ME3 plot analysis just killed me. The Conduit? I did not think of that.

Edit2: Mass Effect 3: Bookends of Destruction Part 5 is pure gold.
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:27 pm

Haven't watched it, but I will.

Just wanted to note that 'Sound in Space' for Mass Effect is explained. They are simulated sounds.
When you talk to Cortez at the Citadel Docks in ME3 he refers to that he used to turn off the loudspeakers and watch the docking ships in silence. He has a term for it, but the name escapes me right now.

Not saying that there are other loopholes, oh there are. Wink

Edit: Ok, I've just watched the first part (of eleven) on Mass Effect 1. So far this is PURE gold. Really good find. Hope I won't get too annoyed by the bits you warn us about and can continue watching.
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:42 pm

DonPidgeon wrote:
Edit: Ok, I've just watched the first part (of eleven) on Mass Effect 1. So far this is PURE gold. Really good find. Hope I won't get too annoyed by the bits you warn us about and can continue watching.
Wait for last part of ME3 analysis. That is purerst gold.
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:01 am

DonPidgeon wrote:
Haven't watched it, but I will.

Just wanted to note that 'Sound in Space' for Mass Effect is explained. They are simulated sounds.
When you talk to Cortez at the Citadel Docks in ME3 he refers to that he used to turn off the loudspeakers and watch the docking ships in silence. He has a term for it, but the name escapes me right now.

Not saying that there are other loopholes, oh there are. Wink

Edit: Ok, I've just watched the first part (of eleven) on Mass Effect 1. So far this is PURE gold. Really good find. Hope I won't get too annoyed by the bits you warn us about and can continue watching.

for me it's great, as there was someone else out there who recognised all the inconsistencies that i did. i'm sure you'll be able to continue watching, i only got annoyed with the guy at times as he was incredibly nit picky in parts when there was no need to be. even when i was annoyed, i would carry on watching Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm

I've only watched the first part of the ME1 analysis but this is just so dry and the guy's so uninteresting; that said, I'm also not sold on any of his nitpicking. Has anybody heard of Fridge Logic? Because that's really what this is. I don't know, I was already over this when he randomly complained that we didn't see a scene of Shepard, Kaidan, and Jenkins getting off the Normandy. Like...

Does this seriously get better? Because I don't know if I think it's worth it to watch this "analysis" if his methodology follows the part one line of thought.
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:11 pm

i didn't say he was entertaining or anything. please read previous posts for clarity and context.
i put this on the forum to open discussion on the major flaws of the story telling and have said that i found his nit picking to be annoying. i continued to watch all of the vids as there was nothing like this out there, feel free to stop watching anytime.

as i said in a previous post, games have to be held to a higher standard to be taken seriously...

if by "fridge logic" you're referring to the scene in indy 4, i point and laugh at you. sorry
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:34 pm

only1biggs wrote:
please do and stick with it. there are a couple of times you will want to punch the guy, but he looks at and examines story and narrative etc... mass effect 2 and 3 failed in this respect, which is where i think they went wrong and lost peoples' love for this franchise...
I have now watched ME1 and ME2 Plot analysis. About to start watching the ME2 DLC plot analysis videos, then on to ME3. This gunna be good...
only1biggs wrote:
if video games are to be taken seriously as a medium, then they must be held accountable for story and to the same standard of movies and literature.
I agree with you completely on this point. The story and plot within video games needs to be as in detailed and as well written, as the story's and plot's in films.
PaganPoetry wrote:
I've only watched the first part of the ME1 analysis but this is just so dry and the guy's so uninteresting; that said, I'm also not sold on any of his nitpicking. Has anybody heard of Fridge Logic? Because that's really what this is. I don't know, I was already over this when he randomly complained that we didn't see a scene of Shepard, Kaidan, and Jenkins getting off the Normandy. Like...

Does this seriously get better? Because I don't know if I think it's worth it to watch this "analysis" if his methodology follows the part one line of thought.
I will agree with you that this person is not the most interesting person to listen to, but I will say keep watching the analysis videos. Over the course of the videos he brings up some very good and interesting points about the plot, so keep watching the videos.

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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:48 pm

only1biggs wrote:
as i said in a previous post, games have to be held to a higher standard to be taken seriously...

if by "fridge logic" you're referring to the scene in indy 4, i point and laugh at you. sorry

I DO hold games to a higher standard than most but I don't understand why this is any different than say, Prometheus, which people ripped apart for plot holes (righteously, in my opinion, because that movie was a hot ass mess) or The Dark Knight Rises, which had a rather vocal backlash because of plot holes but then its critics were sharply reprimanded by fans for paying too much attention to them. It seems like a bit of a double standard. Film is a medium where the more money that goes into a project, the messier it ends up seeming- the Christopher Nolan movie of your choice is plagued by logical fallacies- but people are glad to overlook that. With video games, can we not grant it the same amnesty and look at it with a critical eye?

And lol, no! It is nothing to do with Indy 4, I believe that it comes from a quote from Hitchcock in which a plot hole is not so much a hole if it only occurs to you later on when you're reaching to get something from the fridge. It's only a real problem if it takes you out of the universe at that moment. It is interesting to analyze the Mass Effect series but my problem with his tone and entertainment value does not come just from the fact that he is seemingly devoid of any personality, but the fact that his tone adds to the sense that he feels all of this Fridge Logic somehow lessens Mass Effect as a huge achievement in the video game industry.
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:05 pm

PaganPoetry wrote:
only1biggs wrote:
as i said in a previous post, games have to be held to a higher standard to be taken seriously...

if by "fridge logic" you're referring to the scene in indy 4, i point and laugh at you. sorry

I DO hold games to a higher standard than most but I don't understand why this is any different than say, Prometheus, which people ripped apart for plot holes (righteously, in my opinion, because that movie was a hot ass mess) or The Dark Knight Rises, which had a rather vocal backlash because of plot holes but then its critics were sharply reprimanded by fans for paying too much attention to them. It seems like a bit of a double standard. Film is a medium where the more money that goes into a project, the messier it ends up seeming- the Christopher Nolan movie of your choice is plagued by logical fallacies- but people are glad to overlook that. With video games, can we not grant it the same amnesty and look at it with a critical eye?

And lol, no! It is nothing to do with Indy 4, I believe that it comes from a quote from Hitchcock in which a plot hole is not so much a hole if it only occurs to you later on when you're reaching to get something from the fridge. It's only a real problem if it takes you out of the universe at that moment. It is interesting to analyze the Mass Effect series but my problem with his tone and entertainment value does not come just from the fact that he is seemingly devoid of any personality, but the fact that his tone adds to the sense that he feels all of this Fridge Logic somehow lessens Mass Effect as a huge achievement in the video game industry.

I was unaware of the "fridge logic" statement made by Hitchcock, but I suppose my Indy 4 reference is relevant. I happen to have been taken out of the story MANY times during mass effect 2 and 3, but I still enjoyed playing mass effect 2.

Concerning the Dark Knight Rises, (even though we weren't discussing this), I agree with you to some degree. I did question how he (batman) managed to avoid the particular zone of a certain object he removed (hope that doesn't spoil anything), but there were only a couple of points that could be pulled apart, after the fact, with this "fridge logic", as the story was told very well. Nothing pulled me out of the story. In the case of Mass Effect 2 and 3, this is not the case. For me anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:21 pm

I don't think the major plot holes in Mass Effect are 'fridge logic'.
Sure, some of those holes he point at might be considered such, but in these videos he puts words to things that have bothered me about ME2 and ME3. I would hardly call the question on why Collectors decided it was a good idea to build a human reaper as a Plan B when Soverign failed to attack the Citadel something that only occurred to you when you went for a soda after finishing ME2.

I've yet to reach his ME3 analysis, but considering the lack of plot in ME3, it will probably be very good. Smile

His analysis of ME2 characters was not very spot on though. Somewhat tedious and repetitive. Besides, as he himself said, the ME2 side-characters is all that's interesting in ME2 (plot/story wise) anyway. So pulling them apart doesn't make much sense.

However, I don't agree with you that he is uninteresting to listen to. His clips are often relevant and funny.
It's obvious he is or has been a student of literacy criticism. Perhaps I've been hanging around forums too much, but whenever I hear someone who knows what he is talking about speak, I find it interesting. Especially when it is on a subject that I find dear to my heart, in this case Mass Effect.
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:43 am

DonPidgeon wrote:

...whenever I hear someone who knows what he is talking about speak, I find it interesting. Especially when it is on a subject that I find dear to my heart, in this case Mass Effect.

very well put sir, my thoughts exactly
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:17 am

He does seem very well versed in literary criticism for sure. More than I am, at least. Although actually, literary criticism is not often about ripping apart plots as illogical, but rather dissecting narratives and characterization? I am sure he does just that in the videos, but dispersed with the nitpicking, it's a bit off putting. In fact, literary criticism is a very misleading term because you're not "criticizing" anything, you're interpreting what's on the page (or in this case, the screen as well). If there were more interpretation, perhaps I would find it a bit more enlightening. I do suppose that a facet of literary criticism could be pointing out how the series violates certain literary "rules" but I don't really think that it does?

And I am curious about the Collector comment. Is that something he brought up in the video? I've always interpreted that as Plan B being that the human reaper was necessary because humanity was a race that had already proven itself defiant, powerful, and resilient- organic qualities that would create a sort of "super reaper", one that was unstoppable. Kind of a necessary response to Sovereign's defeat. I don't know, I may be misunderstanding the gripe because I've never thought much about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:27 am

I have watched a few more parts and I will concede that this guy knows what he's talking about. I can mostly forgive the less constructive parts of his criticism but I wish more people would do this sort of thing with games.
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:49 pm

has everyone got through these yet?
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:55 pm

only1biggs wrote:
has everyone got through these yet?
I have got about half of the ME2 character analysis video's to watch, then on to ME3 analysis.

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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:46 pm

only1biggs wrote:
has everyone got through these yet?

I watched the ME1 plot analysis, ME2 Character analysis and the ME3 Bookends of Destruction on one marathon session. I didn't see the ME2 plot one though, so i'll have to do that later

this guy brings up a lot of good points, but I feel like he is too nitpicky, and i end up still loving the series.
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:54 pm

gilgamesh v9 wrote:
only1biggs wrote:
has everyone got through these yet?
I didn't see the ME2 plot one though, so i'll have to do that later

me2 analysis is fantastic, definitely make sure you watch that Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Worth a look   Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:00 pm

i was more than marginally upset when he called Grunt useless. Maybe its cuz i have a soft spot for Krogans
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